Complete Transcript from Chris Matthews Interview with White Party Chair Preibus: Why Are You Playing the Race Card? What was the joke?

Transcript of RNC Chairman Reince Preibus interview on MSNBC's Morning Joe on 8/27/12.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC ANCHOR

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC ANCHOR CHRIS MATTHEWS, NBC ANCHOR

WILLIE GEIST, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT

TOM BROKAW, FORMER NBC HOST

BZEZINSKI: Welcome back to "Morning Joe."

Tom Brokaw is still with us here in Tampa. And joining us on the set, we have the host of MSNBC's "Hardball," Chris Matthews, and chairman of the Republican National Committee, Reince Priebus.

Gentlemen, good to have you on board this morning.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Well, Mr. Chairman, how -- how's the -- how's the week starting out...

BRZEZINSKI: Yeah. Looking great.

SCARBOROUGH: ... hurricane and all?

PRIEBUS: A little slow, but, you know...

BRZEZINSKI: Short stop.

PRIEBUS: ... you got to make the call. I mean, this call had to be made two days ago. Some heavy rain and wind are still on the way, but the fact is, when emergency services tell you that they're not sure that the buses can get between Clearwater and St. Pete to the Tampa Bay forum safely and when the Secret Service takes down the tents in front of the forum that means that you have fewer entrances, you can't bring umbrellas in, you've got all your guests outside in a driving rain.

And then what do you do if you have a full forum on Monday, things deteriorate and you can't bring people back? You've gotta make the call, and we'd always err on the side of safety.

SCARBOROUGH: So the convention is starting out this week with a race that's a toss-up.

PRIEBUS: Yeah.

SCARBOROUGH: Where you're talking earlier about how in 1980 Reagan was nine points behind at this point, and -- and -- and obviously George H.W. Bush, down more than that before his convention convened. But right now it is a toss-up.

What does Mitt Romney have to do to get the remaining 3 percent, 4 percent that he needs to win?

PRIEBUS: Well, I think we need to two things this week. One, we need to prosecute the president as far as what he promised to deliver and where we're at. I mean, the nice thing for this race for us, is that the facts are on our side. I mean, you want to go into a case in your closing argument -- it's always great to have the facts on your side.

The other thing I would say is that if -- if we're in a tie on Election Day, we're going to win. Because I think it's pretty well settled that most in the -- most people in the middle are going to break to the challenger. We're looking good in places like Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin. We're a little bit behind in Michigan, but we're in the margin in Michigan. So I think we've got a good case to tell.

And this week is about telling the Mitt Romney story, the story about a good, decent man that everything he's touched he's been successful. And I think that's a pretty good formula right now in this country.

SCARBOROUGH: Chris, we've got some -- some new polls out. There's a Washington Post-ABC poll that shows this race split. It's 47 percent Romney, 46 percent President Obama. So it's a toss-up. We're -- we're still at a toss-up.

And I've been using the basketball analogy for sometime. It seems the Republicans have done a lot of things wrong over the past year, even, you know, the Todd Akin problem, a -- a pretty tumultuous primary. And they're tied.

And I'm looking at President Obama at 46 percent, and I'm wondering whether you're thinking back to a campaign you know a lot about: 1980.

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

SCARBOROUGH: And is -- is...

MATTHEWS: Yeah, I feel that once in a while. I worked for -- I was a speech writer for President Carter so I do feel that -- that sense of foreboding sometimes. And I -- and I don't know how to -- but certainly President Obama's not as weak a politician as Jimmy Carter was. President Obama's a very skillful, deft politician, and very good on the stage. Jimmy Carter was not good at those things.

And certainly whatever you say about Romney, he's no Reagan in terms of charisma or historic appeal.

But I think -- I think that there are similarities (inaudible) the economy. And there's no dreadful hostage crisis emblemizing the whole thing either.

I think the challenge of your convention this time -- and you didn't get to it til the very end; in fact, you didn't quite get to it -- is that -- somebody said the other night at a session I was at that people think that Romney has the skillset to fix the problem, they're not sure he's interested in the people he wants to help. And on the other hand, Obama is very interested in the people he wants to help but may not have the skillset to help them.

So you gotta put it together. You gotta show some humanity on this guy's part. Is he going to be the guy looking out for you? And I think that's something you have the opportunity do this week.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: And I think (inaudible) if he comes off as a human being -- he doesn't have to be comic or something he's not, or a real showman, which he's not. But if he comes off as a good square, he'll be all right.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: He is a square. No, but he's a good square.

SCARBOROUGH: And, you know, Republicans have usually had problems in this area, Chris, which candidate cares more about people like you.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: And we -- we -- we have a bigger gap, I think, this year when you look at the Republicans versus the Democrats.

PRIEBUS: But -- but, we've seen -- where I think President Obama has a little bit of a problem is that I think people are starting to believe that he might not be real anymore and that -- that the brand of Barack Obama...

MATTHEWS: So you're focusing on what...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... attacking Obama.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: ... the comments that you've made numerous times, that the brand of Barack Obama of 2008 isn't the Barack Obama of 2012.

MATTHEWS: Steve (sic), well, let's talk about your candidate...

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS (?): ... that's a fact.

MATTHEWS: Why don't we talk about...

PRIEBUS: ... part of the convention when you're -- when you're in a challenging spot is to tell the American people who you are, what makes you tick, and this is our opportunity this week to launch that campaign.

SCARBOROUGH: And -- and -- and Willie...

MATTHEWS: If he (ph) can do it.

And I think, it's like your guy's like the Orkin man in the commercials. He's this good looking guy. He says, "Call me up, I'll be right over."

PRIEBUS: Well, we can get...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... I'm more than willing to fix your problems."

PRIEBUS: Listen, I'm more than willing...

BRZEZINSKI: Orkin man.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: Listen, I'm more than willing...

MATTHEWS: ... Orkin man and I think your guy's the Orkin man.

And the question is...

BRZEZINSKI: Oh, my God.

MATTHEWS: ... is he gonna come over when you call.

BRZEZINSKI: What does the Orkin man do?

(LAUGHTER)

(UNKNOWN): He's an exterminator.

(CROSSTALK)

BRZEZINSKI: Oh, my God. What is wrong with you?

SCARBOROUGH: I think that was Tom Delay.

BRZEZINSKI: Willie Geist?

SCARBOROUGH: So -- so -- so, Willie, you know, something fascinating that's been going on for the past couple of weeks -- and you've heard Mitt Romney talking about how Barack Obama is running an angry campaign and he's....

GEIST: Dividing the country.

SCARBOROUGH: ... he's dividing a country. A lot of people in the media are getting it wrong (inaudible) saying, "Oh, this is about race. This is about race."

Now, America's already elected an African-American as president. This is about saying that brand, that hope and change brand in '08 -- and we heard the chairman say this morning -- it's -- it's not the same four years later. This is a -- this is not a hope and change guy. This is a divisive, angry guy.

GEIST: Well, it can't be, Tom, a marketing campaign anymore. It can't be about these sort of themes of hope and change. He's got a record to run on. He's got 3 1/2 years that he has to defend and he has to make the case that I know it's not gotten better as quickly as maybe you would have liked it to get better...

(CROSSTALK)

GEIST: ... but it is getting better by a little bit and I need four more years to finish the job.

BROKAW: Well, you know, it's -- everybody -- everybody's reaching for a metaphor constantly. But in this country in -- at the turn of the century, in 2000, bought itself a very expensive automobile. And it's -- and it would really get us to wherever we needed to go, however we wanted to get there.

Now, 12 years later, the question is, do we take it in just for a little tune-up or do we completely overhaul? And what the Republicans are suggesting is (inaudible) time for an overhaul, it's time to change the equation and the compact between the people and the federal government and what it can do and how it does it.

As opposed to President Obama who says, look, we can fine-tune this car and keep it going down the road that will carry all Americans to the destination, which has always been an essential part of American politics, the American dream.

That's kind after tortured metaphor but I think that, that's kind of exactly where it is.

And by the way, I want to make one other observation. A lot of this campaign will be about the haves and the have-nots. Half the people sitting here today have socks on, the other half (inaudible)

SCARBOROUGH: Exactly.

(LAUGHTER)

BRZEZINSKI: That's true.

BROKAW: So that's the half...

(CROSSTALK)

BRZEZINSKI: The Florida people.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: ... Florida. Who wears socks in Florida?

BRZEZINSKI: You never wear socks.

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: Tom, I think you hit on something as far as the American dream. I mean, just think about how far we've come on messaging from the Barack Obama of '08 to 2012. Will is right, that Barack Obama's plan now -- he can't talk about the economy (inaudible) tear down Mitt Romney.

But this is what I think the problem he's got: I think he's got a problem with the American dream. And I will just tell you, my parents -- my dad was a union electrician...

SCARBOROUGH: What -- what do you mean by that, he's got a...

PRIEBUS: My dad...

SCARBOROUGH: ... problem with the American dream?

PRIEBUS: Well, here's what I mean. My dad was a union electrician. When we drove around Kenosha, Wisconsin, he didn't point to the beautiful house on the corner and say, "Look at these lousy people over here." What he said and what every Republican and Democratic parent says to their kids is they point to that house and they say, "Listen up, pal, if you go to school and you work hard, you're gonna be in that house" -- and mom and dad, "We hope it's even bigger."

SCARBOROUGH: But a lot of Americans don't believe in that American...

(CROSSTALK)

BRZEZINSKI: And actually feel that your party is the party that really killed that dream.

PRIEBUS: And the -- and the problem is, is that the president is taking exactly what you're saying, that glass half full view of America, he's taking that view and he is selling that view to America and he's tearing down Mitt Romney in order to win an election. And that's exactly what's going on.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Chris -- we always talk, Chris, about how optimism wins.

MATTHEWS (?): Yes, I think so.

SCARBOROUGH: From FDR to Reagan. And -- and one of the things that is so -- I don't want to say disturbing or troubling (inaudible) just sad. I don't -- I don't see either one of these candidates talking about, "This is what I'm gonna do in the next four years..."

Tom talked about big government versus small government. You look at, unfortunately, hopefully, the plans will get more specific. I think what we have is big government versus even bigger government.

I don't see either side saying, this is -- Reagan said it, FDR said it, Kennedy said it. This is where we're going four years from now.

MATTHEWS: Well, look, in the end, we'll have three national debates -- presidential debates and -- an hour and a half each. And I think we'll have a big audience for them.

BRZEZINSKI: I can't wait.

MATTHEWS: And I think that the candidate who can get beyond the past and even the present to the future will win.

SCARBOROUGH: Who's talking about the future?

MATTHEWS: I don't hear it yet from either guy. And I think Obama -- I think the problem with the Republicans is they have a challenge, which is they want to cut the size of government, and that's a very positive general message.

SCARBOROUGH: Right, general.

MATTHEWS: It's when you get specific it's always a problem. And that's why nobody wants to lay down...

SCARBOROUGH: And what's the president's -- what's the president's problem moving forward...

MATTHEWS: I think he has a -- I think he has..

SCARBOROUGH: ... to say, "This is where we're going"?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... I think he has to talk about how he's going to continue what he he's doing, and I think -- that's a harder challenge. I think it is, because these numbers don't look good.

But the fact is, this election's probably going to be decided by three things. The jobless numbers as it progresses right through the last October number we're going to get it on a Friday right before an election. That's going to have a real power.

And your people, in and out officially and the super PACs will probably use whatever advertising time (inaudible) slated to really play those numbers up if they're bad. If they're good Obama will try do it.

Also the performances. If Romney has a moment in -- in the debates where he cuts through -- he's not opaque, he's not distant -- cuts through and becomes a good guy, I think the super PAC money will explode.

And for dramatizing that, we've never had this combination of super PAC money, unlimited money really at the end and -- and a lot of economic news at the end and a brand new personality presenting himself at the end. There's so much (inaudible) the last couple weeks of this election, with Romney sort of really out there for the first time -- a little bit this week, but for the first time people are going to get a good look at him like they did at Reagan in '80 in the debates.

And then -- and then the economic news is going to be really important at the end. And then put those two together with the big super PAC spending, you're gonna have a lot of explosive activity the last couple days of this election, and, therefore, you can't really predict it...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: And by the way Mika, we've talked about it before on this show, if you're running a lot of ads just generally about, "Barack Obama did this", "Mitt Romney did that," Americans don't connect. But if you have that moment in a debate, like Chris is saying...

MATTHEWS: New stuff.

SCARBOROUGH: ... new stuff, people will stop to watch those 30- second ads.

BRZEZINSKI: So let's put the question to Reince. Because you certainly come here locked and loaded looking for ways to criticize this president. I agree it's a tough sell after three years to -- to resell, to repackage...

SCARBOROUGH: You're being like Haley now. It's sad that the Democrats never attacked Mitt.

BRZEZINSKI: No. I'd like to know when we're gonna know what it is Mitt Romney is actually selling to us. Because he hasn't been specific, and I don't want to hear about President Obama. I want to hear about Mitt Romney (inaudible).

PRIEBUS: I'll tell you -- I'll tell you. First of all, I think he's been extraordinarily specific. Number one, he said that he would cut -- he would start cutting immediately GDP to spending from 25 cents on the dollar to run the federal government down to 20 cents on the dollar to run the federal government. That's a -- that -- that's a cut in the size of the federal government, number one.

Number two, he would, across the board on all incomes, a 20 percent tax cut on personal incomes across the board. Small businesses from 35 percent down to 25 percent.

And what more specific can he get than picking Paul Ryan as his vice president and saying, "We're on the same page here. We want to fundamentally change the debt course...

BRZEZINSKI: So is Paul Ryan a blueprint for how he thinks in terms of his economic plans and messages?

PRIEBUS: I think -- I think if you look at -- if you looked at Wyden-Ryan and if you look at the budgets that have come out from the Republican House, I think what you're seeing is a window into the types of things that we need to do to balance the budget, to ensure that Medicare is safe for people that are 54 and younger.

It's the Republicans that are talking about these specific issues.

SCARBOROUGH: Well, is -- is he -- is he going to get more specific, though, as the campaign goes on?

BRZEZINSKI: In the (inaudible)

SCARBOROUGH: ... because the Medicare plan is still murky. How you pay for the tax cuts is still murky. You know, because we talked about getting rid of deductions.

Are we gonna see -- and -- and they talk about balancing the budget, maybe like 2040. A lot of us won't be around in 2040.

BRZEZINSKI: That's kind of a long time.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

(UNKNOWN): He'll be around.

PRIEBUS: By God, I hope so. But you never know.

BRZEZINSKI: I don't know.

SCARBOROUGH: So is he going to get more specific over the next couple months?

PRIEBUS: You know, I would say that campaigns always get more specific as you get closer to -- to November. But this sort of false narrative that he hasn't been specific is just not true.

BRZEZINSKI: It's not false narrative, come on now.

PRIEBUS: Come on.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS (?): ... 2008.

SCARBOROUGH (?): So what -- what -- what's he doing on Medicare?

PRIEBUS: On Medicare, if you're 55 or over -- first of all, there's one thing that we can all agree on, everybody. We know if we do nothing with Medicare it's going to go broke. OK, so what are we going to do about it?

We have decided that if you're 55 years or over, everything that we're talking about -- guaranteed affordability, the -- the plan that all members of Congress has, you don't need to listen to another word of it. But if you're 54 or younger, what are we going to do to save it?

And what we want to try to put together is a plan that every member of Congress has that guarantees affordability, that allows members to choose a Medicare plan if they want to or choose a plan that insurance companies...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: ... to get some other people here, though. But, Mr. Chairman, his 30-second ad...

PRIEBUS: I understand that.

SCARBOROUGH: ... his 30-second ad on Medicare is attacking Barack Obama for cutting Medicare.

PRIEBUS: Right.

SCARBOROUGH: It reminds me a lot of what Bill Clinton did in 1995.

PRIEBUS: Sure. And what we've talked about mainly comes out of the Clinton commission of the late 1990s. I mean, what we're talking about right now comes out of that plan.

And -- and it's the president that -- that stole $700 billion out of Medicare, $415 billion -- it's true -- $415 billion in payments to hospitals and nursing homes, $120 billion to Medicare Advantage out of that program.

BRZEZINSKI: Let me help him. Can I help him?

PRIEBUS: It's true.

(CROSSTALK)

BRZEZINSKI: I got to help. I got a lifeline for you.

PRIEBUS: What's that? I don't need a lifeline.

BRZEZINSKI: How are you going to get rid of Todd Akin? (inaudible)

PRIEBUS: Keep -- keep telling him to get out of the race and -- and put -- and -- and I will tell you, I believe that sometimes you have to put the things you believe in, like liberty and freedom, ahead of yourself. He has an opportunity still to get out.

BRZEZINSKI: So get out, right? Just get out.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: And I believe he should get out.

SCARBOROUGH: Buy him a one way ticket to Tahiti.

BRZEZINSKI: Outta here.

GEIST: Chairman, let me ask you -- and I want to get Tom's take on this, too -- which is a question about the electoral map. The Washington Post poll this morning, that's all well and good. It shows a tied race. But you have to claw back so many swing states that President Obama won four years ago.

So if you concede Michigan and Pennsylvania, where do you see the other weaknesses for the president -- where are you going to make up that ground?

PRIEBUS: Well, you know, we have this 3-2-1 strategy, that I'm sure you know about...

GEIST: Yup.

PRIEBUS: ... which is Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina; the two is Florida and Ohio. And then we need one of about eight states that -- that Bush won in '04 that Barack Obama won in '08.

And he eight states are -- excuse me, there are six states plus Michigan and Wisconsin. You know, I think -- I think we're getting close to the place where Wisconsin's going to be very good for us. And if we can take those 10 electoral votes and put it in our back pocket, then we've got a lot of options, either Colorado or Iowa.

But we have to solidify Florida, Ohio and Virginia first. And then if we can move Wisconsin into our back pocket I think that we're going to be very competitive. I think we've got a great opportunity here.

SCARBOROUGH: Right now...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: I'm sorry, Will, go ahead.

I was just going to say, the tough -- the tough state this year is Ohio for Republicans. I say tough, tougher than usual, Tom.

BROKAW: Yeah, I think this year it's very much in play. John Kasich, the governor, is not wildly enthusiastic about the top of your ticket. I don't think that that's reasonably well known in the state of Ohio. There's a fair amount of separation...

PRIEBUS: I don't know if that's true, but OK, Tom.

BROKAW: I said "wildly" enthusiastic. And, you know, he ran into a tough patch out there when he tried to cut the budget. Things are coming back a little bit in Ohio. Democrats think that they've got a shot at it. So it's hard to know how Ohio is gonna play out.

But my question to you is, Thursday night, does Governor Romney speak to the American people about who he is personally or does he give a policy speech?

PRIEBUS: Yeah, well, I haven't seen his speech, but I have certainly seen enough about generally where this speech is going, and I think it's a speech that's going to be able to accurately portray the Mitt Romney story to the American people. And I think that's important.

And I think once this week passes people are going to see the Mitt Romney launch that will help save this country and really put someone who can fix the problems facing this country into the White House.

SCARBOROUGH: Chris, you're a speech writer. You were you a speech writer for Jimmy Carter. Obviously, Mitt Romney has some challenges in introducing himself to America.

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

SCARBOROUGH: He's seen as, at times, stiff, a lot like John Kerry was seen in -- in 2004 before his convention.

What -- what do you do...

MATTHEWS: Well, these are accurate perceptions, by the way, that voters have of these candidates. They've watched them all for years, and these are realities.

But I do think the great opportunity of a convention speech -- I was in New Orleans in '88 where George Bush Sr., with the help of Peggy Noonan I think, right (inaudible) amazingly empathetic speech where you -- first time in your life said, you know, "I like this guy, George Bush, a lot," because he recognized his own weaknesses. He said, "I'm not very articulate, I'm not a great as charismatic guy like Reagan," he was saying, "But you know, I'm a real patriot." And that was all true.

BROKAW: Read my lips.

MATTHEWS: Well, that was in there too. I don't think that was well advised.

But the stuff about himself personally really broke through for the first time. Of course, he went into that convention something like 17 points behind.

And I know there was a lot of negativity in that campaign, the Willie Horton stuff, but I think if he comes off as a mensch, as a person -- and he hasn't done that yet.

Now, if I were writing his speech that's what I would do...

(CROSSTALK)

BROKAW: I think the real issue for him is not to look into the camera and say, "I'm the Orkin man. Call me and I'll be there."

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: By the way, your guy -- I have to call you on this, Mr. Chairman.

PRIEBUS: Yes?

BRZEZINSKI: Oh, Lord.

MATTHEWS: You've been suggesting that somehow Obama's been running a negative campaign, Obama, and your guy's been running a positive campaign. That's not accurate.

In fact, if they both stopped all the negative, I'm not sure who would win. But they're both the negative. That cheap shot about, "I don't have a problem with my birth certificate," was awful. It is an embarrassment to your party to play that card.

This stuff about getting rid of the work requirement for (inaudible) for welfare is dishonest. Everyone's pointed out it's dishonest.

And you are playing that little ethnic card there. You can you play your games and giggle about it, but the fact is your side is playing that card.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You start talking about work requirements, you know what game you're playing and everybody knows what game you're playing.

(APPLAUSE)

It's a race card.

And this thing about a -- yeah, if you're name's "Romney," yeah, you were well born, you went to prep school, yeah, brag about it. And this guy has an African name and he's gotta live with it. Look who's going further...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Just a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... who was born on third base?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: OK, this absurdity!

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Making fun of the guy's birth certificate issue when it was never a real issue except from the right wing.

SCARBOROUGH: You think Mitt Romney's playing the race card?

MATTHEWS: When he -- when he said...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: I'm asking, do you think he's playing the race card?

MATTHEWS: Yeah (inaudible) there's no doubt he did with his birth certificate.

SCARBOROUGH: No doubt?

MATTHEWS: No doubt. Why would he bring it up? Why would he say, "I have no problem with my birth certificate"? What's that supposed to say?

BRZEZINSKI: Because he's an awkward joker.

SCARBOROUGH: Because -- because he misfired badly on the joke.

MATTHEWS: Why would he do it?

SCARBOROUGH: Well, I'm just asking you, do you think -- do you think that Mitt Romney is playing the race card?

MATTHEWS: On that one, yeah.

SCARBOROUGH: Do you really?

MATTHEWS: Oh, yeah, and I think his work requirement fits right into it.

SCARBOROUGH: That's the race card, too, huh?

MATTHEWS: Of course it is. Welfare? Food stamps?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Absolutely.

And you can chuckle about it, Mr. Chairman...

BRZEZINSKI: Well, now let him respond.

MATTHEWS: ... because you (inaudible) this issue.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: The fact is, you know it's going on.

BRZEZINSKI: No, no, no, no. You have to let him respond.

SCARBOROUGH: Let him answer.

PRIEBUS: Well, you got your monologue in, so...

MATTHEWS: No, no.

PRIEBUS: ... congratulations. You know, you got -- you're loaded up, you got it out, so good for you.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... negativity of Obama.

PRIEBUS: The fact of the matter is, is that he's from Michigan. He was born in Michigan. He's making the point that, "I was born in Michigan." And you know what, we've gotten to a place in politics that any moment of levity is totally frowned upon by guys like you just so that you can, you know, push your brand.

You know what? Good for you. It's a moment of levity. Everybody gets it.

MATTHEWS: What was the joke?

PRIEBUS: Barack Obama came out at the correspondents dinner with his own joke, as you remember....

MATTHEWS: But what's the joke in the fact he has a birth certificate? I don't get it.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: ... a couple years ago playing the Hulk Hogan song, "I'm a Real American".

Every person, myself, starting in February of last year, as soon as I became chairman of the RNC, Mitt Romney continuously has said this president was born in this country. It's a non-starter. It's a dumb issue. It's a distraction. Forget about it.

MATTHEWS: It just seems funny the first joke he's ever told in his life is about Obama's birth certificate.

PRIEBUS: Come on.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... just a funny choice.

BROKAW: I -- I -- listen, I disagree with Chris on this. I do think...

(CROSSTALK)

BROKAW: Listen, I think...

MATTHEWS: Are you speaking for everyone here?

(CROSSTALK)

BROKAW: I think it was a demonstration of his awkward sense of humor. But I do think, in fairness, that all during the Republican debates and the primaries that there was a lot of stuff aimed at the president that was not refuted by leaders of the party.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: I refuted it every single time -- I betcha 20 times on TV.

BROKAW: I'm not talking about the birthing thing as much as I am about he's a Muslim, he's a socialist, he's not American. John Sununu had to apologize for saying he doesn't know what it's like to be an American. That was a pretty tough attack.

Now I think it comes the other way, by the way, from the Democrats toward the Republicans as well. And I think that's what's made the country fed up with American politics, and it's a challenge for both parties (inaudible)

PRIEBUS: But I think Obama's policies have created a sense that for whatever reason, he's looking to guidance as far as health care is concerned, as far as our spending is concerned, as far as the stimulus packages are concerned, he's looking to Europe for guidance.

MATTHEWS: What?

PRIEBUS: I mean, that's -- that's the problem.

MATTHEWS: Where do you get this from?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: This is insane. You mean, the Keynesian fiscal policy is somehow...

PRIEBUS: We've got a government that is so far out of control...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... you mean the fact that every president we've had has tried to offset the economic cycle with stimulus going the other direction is somehow European?

PRIEBUS: He said he'd get the debt under control. Where are we at under this president?

MATTHEWS: What's this got to do with Europe and this foreignization of the guy (ph)? You're doing it again now.

PRIEBUS: You don't think Obamacare...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... he's influenced by foreign influences? You're playing that card again.

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: ... don't think government taking over health care is...

MATTHEWS: What's this European thing of yours?

BRZEZINSKI: OK, let's just work on tone.

Go ahead, Reince.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What are you -- what are you up to with this constant...

BRZEZINSKI: OK.

MATTHEWS: ... (inaudible) that he's not really domestic?

SCARBOROUGH: Chris, let him answer the question.

MATTHEWS: He brought it up.

SCARBOROUGH: All right.

BRZEZINSKI: OK.

PRIEBUS: You don't think that the takeover of our health care system called Obamacare is a problem for most Americans?

MATTHEWS: Let me tell you some history, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Teddy Roosevelt pushed for that. Franklin Roosevelt pushed for that. Truman pushed for that. Were they all under the influence of Europe?

PRIEBUS: Well...

MATTHEWS: Where do you get this from?

PRIEBUS: I'm not going to get into a shouting match with Chris, so you guys can move on.

MATTHEWS: Because you're losing, that's why.

PRIEBUS: No, I'm not losing.

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

PRIEBUS: I'm not gonna sit here...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Let's -- let's -- OK...

MATTHEWS: ... about Obama being a foreigner is the thing your party's been pushing. Sununu pushed it, everybody pushes it in your party.

BRZEZINSKI: OK.